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Studying Effectiveness


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2017-03-21 09:54
CmdrDats Hi everybody,

I'm busy pile-driving through the lectures and problems on here and I just want to bounce my method off you so that I can be sure I'm doing this correctly:

Every day, I try push to get to zero problems left for review (new, learning and review to zero), then I try fit at least one or two lectures and do all the new problems right away. I only watch lectures when I can get the total problem count to zero.

My strategy for hitting "Got it!" vs "Not Yet" is quite simple: If I hit every stone correctly AND understand why they were correct (ie. not just guessing), then "Got It!" else "Not Yet.

Strategy for review problems:

Easy: I could do it correctly and understand without much thought involved.
Good: I could do it, but it took a bit of thinking, I am allowed one really obvious silly mistake from trying to go too fast through them (and responding to an anticipated move)
Hard: Had to look at solution or fudge my way around a bit..
Forgotten: Hardly have any context about the problem at hand - no idea.

The leaderboard is a great motivator for me :) Trying to stay in the top 10 for the week is quite a challenge!

The other subtle part is that I'm working through the lectures by difficulty levels. I've completed level 1 and 2 - working through level 3 - is this considered the normal way of approaching it?

I do find that 'hard' doesn't seem to penalize you on the time nearly hard enough, often if something is hard, I'd want it to dial way back and remind me again sooner than it was reminding me last time - but this doesn't seem the case? Does anyone else find this?

I'm a little worried that I'm hitting it too fast and that stuff doesn't end up sticking, but I figured I want to overload my head so that I can stop overthinking the game and let it seep right into intuition. Is that kinda a valid approach?

Thanks a mil :)

2017-03-21 10:45
Darrell Malick Sounds pretty perfect.

You've avoided the most common error of enabling a bunch of sets all at the same time.

Doing them from easier to harder sounds quite sensible. At some point you might want to switch to picking them by subject of interest ,which also is good. Actually, whatever keeps you interested will improve your go. I do think it's good to do the easy stuff before the hard stuff though.

You're right, if it's hard, it only schedules you back to about the same interval. That's because the button kind of means "I barely remembered." In the theory of a Spaced Repetition System, when you restudy something like this, next time you will forget it more slowly. So you shouldn't need to make the next interval shorter. But if you've forgotten it (or discovered you don't understand it actually), then the correct thing to do is re-learn it. That's the theory anyway. It works well for me. I don't worry about clicking forgotten. Also, in *theory*, you should be clicking forgotten for about 10% of your problems overall. If you're clicking it less often than this, then you're being too conservative (spending too much time) on your initial study. It doesn't sound like this is a problem for you, but I'm just encouraging you not to be too cautious.






2017-03-21 11:40
CmdrDats Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll be less scared of the 'forgotten' button now and shove a few more things I used to classify as hard just as 'forgotten' - think that'll make a bit of difference, thanks! :)

and, hah - I had fallen into the trap of enabling a bunch of sets all at the same time last year.. I realized quite quickly that I'm entirely out of my depth! Also, I had only purchased the problem sets, thinking that I can infer the lecture material from the problem sets. Definitely not the case. So now that I have the lecture subscription too, life is good :D

2017-03-21 17:38
quotient I am also going through the lectures and problems in order of difficulty, despite at 4k being well past the target audience for the earlier lectures. I figured that if I wasn't getting 100% on the sample problems from the difficulty-1 lectures, I could probably benefit from watching them :)

One thing I wish for is the ability to accelerate the problem spacing early on. A lot of the early problems are very easy or are effectively duplicates (due to lecture topic overlapping), but no matter what, you have to do one New phase and one Learning phase before you can mark the problem as easy and start making the spacing wider. But of course this is just a temporary problem for the first few iterations.

2017-03-21 17:44
Darrell Malick Hi Quotient,

I've gotten a lot of great data, filling in important gaps, from studying the basics. I think it's a smart move.

Pro tip: you don't have to actually solve a problem before clicking one of the self-evaluation problems. If a problem loads and you know it's too easy, just click "Got it" and move on to the next one.

2017-03-21 23:51
xcombelle as a 2 kyu, I'm studying the joseki step by step series according to the advice of guo juan.

I must confess that I often learn by heart the moves without understanding it and count as a success if I chose the good move. Maybe I should try to understand better the meaning of the moves.

2017-03-22 08:21
Darrell Malick Hi Xcombelle,

I think both are valid. Sometimes Guo Juan ONLY teaches the moves - frequently in the Basic Course. Just memorizing them is perfect. In the Joseki-step-by-step, I consider that I have learned a lot more a about "why" by learning all the mistake moves and how to punish them. In that setting, I have much more feeling about why the right moves are right.

2017-03-22 09:05
xcombelle Actually after reading this thread I started to think about the meaning of the moves and somehow feel like it make my study one magnitude more efficient. So thanks a lot CmdrDats

2017-03-22 09:18
CmdrDats Awesome, glad that it's helped! :D Efficient learning! I like it :)

2017-04-08 17:19
lightvector I've been using much the same approach as CmdrDats, although only recently have I started to much more strictly try to get to all the new and learning problems within a couple days of seeing the lecture. This wasn't necessary before when I was working through the easier basic joseki lectures where > 50% of the problems were trivial for me and the rest even if worth reviewing weren't at all hard. But has started to become quite important as I've started to move into material that's new to me. Maybe I'll be using the Forgotten button more soon, so far I've only used it a bare handful of times.

I wonder if there's a way to emphasize somewhere in a succinct and hard-to-miss way how important it is to not miss reviews and to take the lectures and problems gradually. Maybe different things work for different people, but I can't imagine that optimal things are happening when I see someone (on some other Go discussion venue) talk about this site and post or screenshot or otherwise reveal that they have like 1000 problems in review and are still trying to pile on new material. Hopefully that's not too common.

I've heard someone say that the problems are designed so that you should only need to ever watch the lecture once if you do things right, but I've actually found it useful sometimes to skim a lecture at 1.5x again when nearing or around the time of finishing the learning phase of the problem set. For example for this one: https://internetgoschool.com/lesson.vhtml?ls_id=259 Mingjiu makes a lot of holistic comments comparing the intent and meaning and differences between of different variations, not all of which is captured in the problems, and it's a lot easier to follow the big picture once you know all the variations. So for the more complex lectures, I've found a quick re-watch to be a great way to get a synthesis of everything.

2017-04-08 20:10
CmdrDats It would be quite nice to some kind of heuristic built into the client side code to highlight the button that, based on your response, you should hit. ie - "you did it fast, no errors - easy", "you did it slightly slow, no errors - good", "you did it quite slowly, one or two errors - hard" else "forgotten", or something like that (however Guo Juan and co intended to use the buttons)

Funny you should mention the 1.5x speed - I only watch lectures at 1.5x speed - I wish there was a 2x speed, I'd watch it at that - I generally find the lectures incredibly valuable, but they generally drag on quite excessively (maybe newer lectures don't suffer with this as much) - I understand the reasoning, since repetition really drives stuff home, but I can mentally easily keep up at 1.5x and I generally remember the relevant parts of the lecture with the practise drills.

I can't bear the idea of re-watching lectures - there's too much other content to get through! Though I'm guessing some more difficult content may need multiple watches to really drive it home.

Apparently people trying to pile on tons of material is quite common, and probably a big crippling failing of the site - I'd actually recommend that lectures (or at least 'adding problem sets') are entirely hard locked out until your reviews/learning/new are at zero. I'd like that restriction for myself!

2017-04-09 02:57
Darrell Malick I'm against the idea of having the computer evaluate for you - I think self-evaluation is important.

I agree with the idea of having the system enforce restrictions on how many new sets can be enabled, but I let someone talk me out of this idea - he really didn't like it. I need to survey that before implementing it because I don't want to alienate users. Generally I lean in the direction of giving users more control, not less.

2017-04-09 04:45
lightvector I also mostly don't like strictly enforcing rules like that - for example on weekdays my time often comes in many bits and pieces too each small to fit a whole lecture but perfect for doing tons of problems. So I tend to view whole lectures just on weekends even when I have some review left because I know that during the week I'll easily catch up. And I also have enabled several sets at once for the basic joseki, because the density of problems hard/useful for me in them was high enough for me to want to add them but low enough that one lecture's worth was nowhere near enough to do.

There are compromise options possible that I think would be great though. For example, upon doing a thing that is not recommended, pop up a slightly-sternly-worded confirmation dialog saying that doing such-and-such is strongly not recommended and explaining why. Or if you want to go even further, perhaps forbidding it but directing the user to a "My Account" optional setting that still allows lifting such restrictions and turns it into just a warning instead.

Brainstorming heuristics here for possible times to do this:
* Enabling a problem set when there are more than 3-4 distinct problem sets unfinished in "New"?
* Enabling a problem set when there are more than a total of N problems already due in New + Learning, OR if there are more than N problems already due for Review. Where maybe N = 200, or maybe N = 5x the user's stated daily study goal or something like that?

Haven't thought carefully so these might not be the best. Note that it's important that it fires only rarely if the site is used close-to-well, lest it become something to be habitually ignored.

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